PluggedIn
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:16 pm

Slow, confusing state of 'fast' charging today

Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:39 am

The cars seem to be ahead of the infrastructure... according to this article, there are still many challenges to charging your car on long trips...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... ging-today

citygirl
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:59 pm

Re: Slow, confusing state of 'fast' charging today

Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:42 am

I also read that charging stations are specific to vehicle type and they are not Universal it was the first time I had read anything like that and I wanted to ask on the Forum if this is true or where most charging stations available to most models of vehicles

PluggedIn
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:16 pm

Re: Slow, confusing state of 'fast' charging today

Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:50 am

I hadn't realized that either... I learned a lot from this article...

Tesla seems to have its own network of Supercharger stations. According to the article:

"For any other electric car capable of fast charging, there's a hodge-podge of charging networks, locations, prices, and charging speeds.

That's always assuming, of course, that a novice electric-car driver understands the difference between the two incompatible standards for non-Tesla electric cars: CHAdeMO and Combined Charging System or CCS."

I hadn't heard of the two different standards before. It goes on to say:

"Those fast-charging sites are operated by two different companies, ChargePoint and EVgo. Each one requires a separate membership card. Their pricing structures vary; EVgo has a monthly usage price and a one-time fee, roughly $10. ChargePoint's pricing is all over the map, though, from free to high, because it doesn't own the stations. It just provides the access for drivers, and record-keeping for site owners.

Worse yet, though, the networks charge at different rates.

Most electric cars fitted with CHAdeMO (e.g. Nissan Leaf) or CCS (several vehicles from U.S. and German makers) max out at 50 kilowatts. Some "fast" charging stations only deliver 24 kw, however, enough to recharge an 84-mile car to near 80 percent within half an hour. That's nowhere near enough for a Bolt EV with its 60-kilowatt-hour battery, however, and the ability to charge at up to 80 kw.

The 124-mile Hyundai Ioniq Electric tops that; it can charge at up to 100 kw."

So it appears that there is quite a bit of variance in charging capabilities. Looks like the Ioniq has the greatest capability but it doesn't look like most stations are equipped to provide that!

SparkE
Moderator
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:20 pm

Re: Slow, confusing state of 'fast' charging today

Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:13 am

It's really not that complicated. Use google if you want more info than what follows.

Tesla has its own proprietary fast-charge systems, yes. I won't talk about them. There are currently TWO (non-Tesla) standards for fast charging : CHAdeMO and CCS (Combined Charging System). CHAdeMO was developed in Japan, and most Asian companies make cars with CHAdeMO fast-charge ports (world-wide). CCS is an international standard, and every other (non-Asian) car manufacturer uses it. CCS is named "Combined Charging System" because it combines the standard Level-2 plug for 'regular' charging with two additional high-amperage/high-voltage DC ports for fast charging. You only need one plug with CCS (whereas a car with CHAdeMO has two : a level-2 AND a CHAdeMO plug). A vehicle comes with either CHAdeMO or CCS, not both.

ChargePoint and EVgo have both CHAdeMO and CCS fast-charge stations, it is not as if each picked a different standard. In fact, most DCFC (DC Fast Charge) stations being installed in the U.S. today have both types of plugs. Most currently installed DCFC chargers are 100-125Amps, or 50-60Amps, at around 400/500V (that's about 40/50-50/62 kW or 20/24-25/30 kW, respectively). The two standards (CHAdeMO & CCS) are rated "theoretically" up to 200A, so 80 kW chargers have been "theoretically" possible for a while. I seem to recall reading recently that CharIN (the CCS standards body) announced a 150 kW "tweak" (small spec change) to the CCS standard, available immediately, and that they are currently working on a much more robust 350kW standard. EVgo announced that it "will be" installing a large charge station (multiple charge spots for multiple concurrent car charging) near Bakersfield, CA - opening this summer, with 150 kW chargers. Or maybe it was ChargePoint. Or both (both *have* made announcements). There was a Swiss company that announced installation of a few 100 kW chargers last year.

At any rate, today there are almost NO (non-Tesla) fast chargers available in the U.S. that charge at over 50 kW. (I read that last month a 150 kW charger was installed near San Francisco at an EVgo station "for testing".) Almost no (non-Tesla) cars are on the road that will charge at a rate faster than 50 kW (Bolt, Kia Soul may be the only two). Any vehicle that has a 35 kWh or smaller battery really doesn't need to charge at a rate higher than 50-60 kW anyway. So you save 2 minutes - big deal.

PS : Yes, there's a third fast-charge standard : GB/T. But it's only used in China, so who cares!

SparkE
Moderator
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:20 pm

Re: Slow, confusing state of 'fast' charging today

Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:18 am

citygirl wrote:I also read that charging stations are specific to vehicle type and they are not Universal it was the first time I had read anything like that and I wanted to ask on the Forum if this is true or where most charging stations available to most models of vehicles


Charging stations are specific to *standards*, not to individual vehicles or manufacturers - there are two fast charge standards (and Tesla). And most charging stations in the U.S. will charge any EV : almost every EV can use a "level 2" plug for charging their vehicle in several hours. For fast charging, there are two standards, and most (but not all) charging stations in the U.S. have both plug types available (CHAdeMO and CCS). All of the apps/websites allow you to search for one type of plug or the other.

PluggedIn
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:16 pm

Re: Slow, confusing state of 'fast' charging today

Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:05 am

Thanks for the clarification. That's helpful information!

SparkE
Moderator
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:20 pm

Re: Slow, confusing state of 'fast' charging today

Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:45 am

EVgo announces 4-charger 350 kW system in Baker, CA ; to open June 2017 (altho prob 150 kW max at first) : https://electrek.co/2016/12/15/electric ... alifornia/

ChargePoint announces its 400 kW ExpressPlus modular system, available in July 2017 : https://electrek.co/2017/01/05/chargepo ... cle-range/

EVgo fast-charger avail in Fremont "for testing" : http://insideevs.com/evgo-abb-first-150 ... alifornia/

citygirl
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:59 pm

Re: Slow, confusing state of 'fast' charging today

Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:08 am

SparkE wrote:
citygirl wrote:I also read that charging stations are specific to vehicle type and they are not Universal it was the first time I had read anything like that and I wanted to ask on the Forum if this is true or where most charging stations available to most models of vehicles


Charging stations are specific to *standards*, not to individual vehicles or manufacturers - there are two fast charge standards (and Tesla). And most charging stations in the U.S. will charge any EV : almost every EV can use a "level 2" plug for charging their vehicle in several hours. For fast charging, there are two standards, and most (but not all) charging stations in the U.S. have both plug types available (CHAdeMO and CCS). All of the apps/websites allow you to search for one type of plug or the other.



OK this makes sense as specific to "standards" Thank you everyone for your reply

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